Yesterday, I met a friend for coffee downtown to catch up on life. Though we talked about everything under the sun during our three hour coffee date, at some point the conversation turned to North Dakota (like it does so often with me). She asked me if I had seen the study that voted ND #1 state for 18-24 year olds. I said I had, though unfortunately I fall outside the age bracket (so sad). She then asked if I had seen the follow up article addressing this study titled, “Why I’ll Never Move to North Dakota”. My friend gave me a brief summary and then said she’d send me the link. While I encourage you to read the entire article and weigh in, I’ll give you a brief summary:
A young journalist from New York City (who has probably never been to North Dakota) thinks it’s a crummy state, that the study is ludicrous, and that people are ridiculous to live here over big city life. Her three main reasons: 1. Yeah, there are jobs but I mean… they are probably just oil job. 2. It doesn’t matter if there are a lot of 18-24 year olds, with only 200,000 residents there is clearly no real social scene. 3. ND isn’t ethnic enough… forget the strong Native American heritage and the unique German and Norwegian culture that still is incredibly prominent. 4. The vibe… wait… what? (Note: I may have given myself a little liberty in the paraphrasing).
Alright, well let me address all four of your points from the perspective of someone who actually chose to move to North Dakota from a more populous state:
The job market. “No one can simply look at employment rates for a state and count on finding a job in their field. North Dakota’s economy may be booming, but that’s mostly due to its mining and shale industry.” True, jobs are plentiful out on the Western side of the state, however, the rest of the state isn’t doing too badly either. According the the Bureau of Labor and Statistics (July 2012), the unemployment rate is still only 3.3%. Additionally, Job Service North Dakota notes that there are more than 20,000 open positions across the state.
The social scene. Yes, Fargo is the largest city in the state and only has 200,000 residents. Yes, I have lived in bigger communities before and Washington DC was only a quick metro ride away. However, no town that I have ever lived in has provided so many community events for both young and old. And with three universities and various community and technical colleges near by, the community has provided plenty of opportunities to keep those “young people” occupied.
The diversity. Ok, I agree North Dakota lacks a bit of the diversity you might find on the east or west coast or in a larger city. At the same time however, I feel like much of the state realizes this. In turn, communities seem to put forth the effort to offer cultural opportunities to people as to not keep them in the dark about diversity.
The vibe. I don’t know what this means. “No matter how stellar a state’s economic report card may be, the personal connection people feel to a place is what truly matters. I’m a city girl and though I’m always up for traveling off the beaten path, I don’t thrive for very long outside of the concrete jungle.” Oh, so wait. Is she saying she wouldn’t move to North Dakota because she loves where she lives no matter what, and you should stay where you are happy? Hmm… interesting. I may be wrong, but couldn’t the same be said to those of us that are happy and content living in North Dakota? Additionally, as someone who has moved around a bit, if you don’t branch out of your comfort zone ever, you sure miss out on learning a lot about yourself.
So obviously I got a bit defensive when I read that article, and maybe I shouldn’t be. After all, when I wrote a blog post about a year ago addressing how outsiders have a negative image of North Dakota and the state needs some serious positive PR to show the true ND, a few readers disagreed. They said that the reason many communities are able to keep that “everyone knows you, small town, be kind to your neighbor feel” is because people aren’t flocking to move here. So I guess if a journalist from New York City wants to shout from the top of a mountain how she would never move to North Dakota… fine. Because really, the people that have made the decision to move to North Dakota (yours truly included) as well as those individuals who have lived here their entire life know the truth. NoDak rocks.
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I am so glad I found this blog, as I have been needing a good inside perspective on live in Fargo, ND. I grew up in South Dakota but was happy to move to Ft. Lauderdale, Denver and then San Diego, CA where I have been for the past 6 years. Thing is, I am pregnant and most of my family is in Fargo. They are all begging me to move there. Thing is, I LOVE it here in San Diego and I am afraid that if I move I will be thinking – What have I done. But the alternative is I stay here, go broke and am stressed out trying to support a baby with 0 family here to help me. I have a good job, but its not like I’m making $100k or even close to it to actually be ok here raising a child on my own. Don’t ask about my personal situation as it is quite a mess right now, but my husband (soon to be ex) unexpecedly abandoned me after I found out I was pregnant.
Anyway – after living in these big cities which I prefer and having the most beautiful weather and sunny beaches, will I survive and most importantly be happy in Fargo? I fear that I move and while having family is great and all, I feel that I made a huge mistake and I’m miserable.
I moved back to Denver a while back and lasted a month and had to take off because I missed San Diego so much.
I am not sure if anyone is from CA that moved to Fargo, but I would love you advice or any input you may have and just give me your honest opinion!
Thank you!
After reading all the comments here, I unfairly neglected to even read the New Yorkers article. I can honestly say that after living in Denver, CO for 17 years, and coming from small town KS, I would “jump” at the chance to relocate to North Dakota. That “small town” atmosphere personally appeals to me now, however, I do not have the means to do so. Arent you all happy that we live in a country that allows us to post our comments without fear of retaliation? I realize this is not the forum for posting skills, but hey, I say “take a chance”….you never know what opportunity will arise if you present yourself legitimately. I’m skilled in Administrative, Personal Assistant (non-medical), but I am capable of committing to ANY hard physical labor. Great comments all!…..martinalb@outlook.com
I lived in ND for 12 years and I will NEVER be moving back. It’s just not somewhere I want to live, it may work for others but not me. I see a lot of posts commenting on how friendly people from Fargo are. I think I have a different idea of ‘friendliness’ than those people do. I mean, sure, holding a door open could be considered friendly by some but I call that kindness, giving up a seat on a bus is KIND, not friendly. When I lived in ND (and visited, the most recent time in early 2012) people were more than kind. People were overly friendly. I’ve grown to strongly dislike this kind of people. Strangers there would randomly smile at you for no reason, they had to know everything about you and your family and where you’re from and what you do for a living. They can’t just mumble ‘sorry’ if they bump into you and then go on their way. No, they have to get to know you and follow you throughout the store for 5 min trying to find out if your children could possibly know each other. If you experience that every day you may think it’s friendly, but even when I lived there (in Valley City for 5 years and Fargo for 7) it did nothing but weird me out and I began to wonder if everyone there was slightly mental.
One thing I didn’t notice when I lived there was the level of bigoted ignorance. Until I was able to get out of the state for a few years and live in other parts of the country I didn’t realize just how racist ND was. I went back to visit old friends in 2008 and again in 2012, both times I was struck with how rudely not only complete strangers but also my ‘friends’ reacted towards anything they weren’t familiar with. It’s understandable to be nervous or scared when in a ‘bad part’ of town but people in Fargo take it to an extreme. I’m talking serious racism. My friends had also seem to become rich since I had left and were literally afraid of experiencing anything less than first class. One sign in Spanish suddenly meant that everything outside the car doors were to regarded with extreme caution or you may end up dead.
It drove me crazy and I mentioned it to them. I was then suddenly the target and was being told that I am ‘inexperienced’ and don’t know what I’m talking about, what could I know about ‘other’ types of people?
I found this so ironic I could barely stop from laughing out loud and insulting them. I didn’t know anything about ‘other’ people? The schools I attended in ND were about 90% white people and the minorities were obviously looked down upon. After moving I went to high school in another state and white people there were a minority. My roommate in college had been born in Mexico and when I spent Thanksgiving with their family I found that I was one of the three people (out of the 11 spending the holiday) that spoke English.
Even if everyone up north suddenly learned to accept everyone and realized that their opinions aren’t they only ones that matter, I still wouldn’t move back. There’s nothing to do in Fargo. There’s bowling (oh gee, fun, bowling…every day…all year…), there’s a public pool that toddlers urinate in, there’s…um…minimum budget stage plays that repeat all year. The closet to real entertainment you get is minor league baseball or some cheap college sports.
Speaking of NDSU, while it’s true some of their sports have been doing well lately, their fans ruin the experience for any newcomers. Loving your team is totally fine but bison fans take it too far. Think of NHL fans. Now multiply that by three. Obsession. I actually looked at NDSU when I was applying to colleges, an old friend’s family had offered to let me live with them to save on room and board. No matter how much I hated the state I figured it would be stupid not to consider an offer like that. So I even toured the campus. No, never. They have the worst layout of any college campus I have been ever been on. Most of the buildings are made of brick and built 100 years ago and while shade is great, there were so many giant oak trees the sunlight couldn’t get through. It was depressing. Not to mention it’s a small school so there limited selection of courses had nothing even remotely close to my major, so had I enrolled there, I had have had to completely change my career path.
So I guess it depends on the person. If you like the whole, small community, everyone-knows-everyone thing (ugh), you’ll find that in Fargo. If you’re used to a city of 10 million people with diversity, activity, nightlife, an actual variety of things like schools and restaurants, and even buildings with more than 20 floors…trust me. Don’t move to North Dakota.
P.S. – The few Mexican restaurants in Fargo are not worth your time. They’re as American as baseball. Absolutely no heat. At all. If you’re gonna spend money on Mexican food make sure it’s authentic. It’s so much better tasting!
We’ve lived here for almost a year – moved from Washington State and have not experienced such friendliness either. We had a liberal bumper sticker on our car and took it off after getting sooo tired of people flipping us off, yelling at us through their car windows and giving us horrible looks and shaking their heads as if we were the worst people in the world. One guy actually yelled at my husband at a stop light on Main Ave. He told my husband to roll his window down, asked him what voting liberal “ever did for him?!” and called him a “piece of shit.” Then he squealed his tires LOUDLY and drove off. There is definitely a lot of ignorance in Fargo and a lot of “one-way” thinking amongst people. It’s as though they are saying, “It’s one way, there’s NO other way and even if there is, we’re not going to think about it because we don’t want to change.” I definitely feel like I’m back in time here; about 1985 or so. I’m not saying this to be mean; just sharing my experience.
Hey, your comment really made me giggle. I grew up in ND, and as much as I would like to say that I love it here… that would be a lie. You see, I grew up here as a bisexual and a nonchristian… I think it goes without saying that I was not exactly welcomed into the Midwestern fold. Sometimes, really amazing things would happen, like the huge burly Minnesota family who pushed my (ex)girlfriend and I out of the ditch when we got stuck in the snow and then drove away without saying a word. Other times, less nice things would happen, like the (many) mothers who pulled their children closer when she and I were nearby or acted like we’d flashed them when we kissed (briefly, in the peck-on-the-lips way). I can’t tell you the number of times I would be speaking to a perfectly nice cashier/waitress/stranger (in that overly solicitous way that you mentioned above, because I grew up here and it’s habit) and then I would mention the phrase “my girlfriend” and they would instantly shut down. I could literally see the transition from “one of us” to “one of them.” Anyway, I’m just venting now, but I wanted to say “I know how you feel!” and “You made me laugh!”
Also, no offense meant to the author of the article. I am glad that other people like it here! I know not everyone is a bigot, even if I do think it’s a widespread and accepted part of the culture here.
How idiotic! I’m black, and moved to ND, and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else! I like people being friendly, i like that people Talk, And ask questions. I like people being intimate (conversationally). These are all good things! Stay in the city where u belong, liberal!
I think this is a great perspective. It should go without saying that North Dakota (any city) and NYC are polar opposites, and may not attract the same residents, although I found the article to be needlessly condescending.
Thank you for your sensible rebuttal!
It sounds like the writer of the article had a looming deadline and needed a punching bag…. “Living in ND would stink….” but then gloss it over with “…well, that’s my opinion….”
It’s like a bad school essay — “You can’t fault me for my opinion.” Okay, so we’ll fault you for lousy IMO writing. Good IMO writing will at least halfway convince me…. Right now I’m inclined to avoid NYC for fear of become narrow-minded. And poor.
Thank you for your refreshing perspective! I’m a native North Dakotan who has traveled extensively, lived in several countries…and I have studied world cultures at length, so human diversity is something I cherish. That said, North Dakota will always be precious to me for so many reasons. I do agree with you; people who detract from the community-centered social values are welcome to avoid the state. It can be the best-kept-secret for the rest of us!
Hello, please help me out. Thinking of moving to ND soon need some input. Thank You.
Did you move to North Dakota? Where would you be moving too? In Fargo you get big city life with a small commute time. It’s nice to get home 15 minutes or less on the commute. The people are friendly and will help strangers. North Dakota has good old time values at any age. And no don’t refer to that movie Fargo we don’t all talk like that anymore. There is modern technology we are not in the dark ages as some would think. There is no smog to deal with, no hurricanes, earthquakes or too many tornados. Just have to deal with snow in the winter but you just stay in and don’t have to leave your home to be safe like hurricanes. I have lived in this area since 1988.
Rachel- the “modern technology” you refer to is still “in the dark ages” as compared to many other places in the country. It’s gotten better, I’m sure, but it’s still not modern (meaning, up-to-date) by any means. When we moved here we were given the “most current top-of-the-line” DVR via Cable One. It was the same one we got in Washington 12 years ago. Same with “big city life.” For HERE it probably seems like “big city life” but Fargo by no means IS “big city life.” Fargo does have a lot of “newer” restaurants (Smash Burger, Texas Roadhouse, Johnny Carinos, Famous Dave’s BBQ…). I’ll give it that.
I’m not saying this to offend you, I’m just saying that is just your perspective, having been here since 1988.
i didn’t come here for new DVR’s (i could care less about that) I came here for rural quiet, and nice people..i got both
excellent article..i just moved here from NY, myself, and it’s awesome! Im tired of these NY elitists who think they’re better than others!
thanks
Hi Hailey!
I have been searching and searching for a great blog about life in Fargo – and this is it! Why was I looking for this? Well, my fiance (soon to be husband on Saturday!?) has been offered a job in Fargo and we’re facing a life-changing decision. Should we take a leap and move to North Dakota? I think you and I are right around the same age, and I’d love to hear more from you about the area. We can also connect on our decision to move “for a boy.”
I’ll keep digging into your blog, but if you get a chance to send an email, I’d love to touch base. Thanks again for your lovely blog and positive outlook on life. 
North Dakota is a great place to live. You get big city life in Fargo but everything is within 15 minutes away. You don’t have to deal with much of before or after work traffic and sit there for an hour. I have lived in the Fargo area since 1988 and love it. Where from Minnesota are you coming from? Did you move to North Dakota?
I know a lot of people that have moved away from North Dakota and moved back when they have started a family, and all seem very happy to be back. Sure, North Dakota isn’t for everybody, but that’s o.k., there are a lot of cities that I like to visit, but would never want to live in. Hey, a ten to fifteen minute commute compared to an hour or so, gives me that much more time living than the average New Yorker.
I’m defently not say ND is the best place to live or everyone here is friendly as can be all the time ( everyone has bad days and not everyone is originally from ND) but we are defently not as bad as people make us out to be and I’ve never been to a place filled with people who want and will help someone they hardly know if they need it and there is no place I would rather live but I’m not going to say I refuse to move somewhere I’ve never been before for reasons I’ve never experienced for myself .… as a great person once said NoDak rocks ……. But it’s probably not the only place that does
How much trash do you have in your cities? I’m all for diversity, but also for personal responsibility. What I see in these great mass metro areas I’ve lived in and visited, is a large assortment of neighborhoods where you roll up the windows and lock the doors. Local residents in the know, never even travel in them. So, how much of that do you have? Personally, there is some diversity I’d prefer to avoid.
I think people from other areas would like here much more if people from the region would be more accepting. I hate to say it but the local people are not accepting and are not as friendly as you think you are. And I always love it when they say things like ND nice or MN Nice. That is amusing because it is not true. And by the way I lived in many places in my life and over a decade here and this place has by far been the most unfriendly. So I speak from experience.
Thank You! I lived there for 4 years (Fargo) and the people were so rude and nasty. Maybe because they drink too much or the winter time is crippling. I just found the people to be generally unhappy and very weary of strangers.
Hmm… it’s interesting how people can have such different experiences. I’ve lived multiple places as well and ND has by far been the friendliest place I’ve ever lived. I do think people are a little weary of strangers depending on the size of town you are visiting. I definitely was a stranger at first and it was pretty obvious, but I’ve never really had a bad experience with anyone being rude… except when driving.
Still needs to be pointed out, Fargo has 105,000 or so people. There are three other cities and some small towns that push the metro well over 200,000.
Please shout your dislike from the NYC rooftops. We don’t need you in ND. And I say that at the risk of not sounding like a friendly North Dakotan. I like being able to afford a “lifestyle” on my meager salary that I would not enjoy in NYC. I don’t make much more than the amount she quoted for a journalist but I have a HOUSE, and LAND, and a FAMILY. I would be willing to bet her NYC apartment would fit in my garage. I am not trying to say I’ve got it all…the point I am trying to make is that you can make a living and have a life in ND…..and you can do it without killing yourself. No we may not be fancy. Your drink is more likely to contain a generous amount of alcohol than an umbrella. You might have to make an effort to expose your self to diversity but it is DEFINITELY here. The FM area is incredibly diverse for the size of our population and if you don’t think so you aren’t paying attention. Are there more exciting places in the world to live? You bet your @$$ there are. I know people who have moved to those places and discovered that living there and visiting there are 2 very different worlds. Many of those things people LOVE about exciting and exotic locations aren’t enjoyed by people who actually live there. With the exception of renting a room at the HoDo I would say that I enjoy all the amenities that the FM area has to offer and I can do it as frequently as I want because with $7 martini’s, fantastic ethnic food at very affordable prices, cultural events galore, and free community events who can’t afford a little fun?
Very well said!!!
My thing was the I would only make 31,000 as a reporter comment….. Yes you would only make 31,000 (seeing your article you would be lucky to make that) but when you pay next to nothing in rent, half if not less for a salad of probably better quality, and you could go out drinking with 40 bucks in your pocket and still have change left at the end of the night
I agree. She was definitely taking the salary out of context. Reporters in NYC NEED to make more money because the cost of living is much higher. Clearly a little extra investigation was needed for an accurate article.
My sister is a receptionist in Los Angeles and makes $45k a year. She would be rolling in the dough in some places, but LA……
Actually I live in a town of 3 million people now and pay the same for rent (for a apartment that’s the same size as in Fargo) and I actually pay less for groceries. Plus I can find a job that pays more than $10-$12 an hour. People who think Fargo has a low cost of living has just never lived anywhere else. Don’t believe the hype!
It must depend on the city you live in. I’ve lived other places as well and the rent I pay in Fargo has been the cheapest. Obviously there are other things to take into consideration.
It most definitely depends on the city. Just because you have an apartment the same size, that costs less, doesn’t mean you live in a good neighborhood (doesn’t mean that you don’t either)!! It’s pretty darn cheap to live in a lot of population 3 million cities, that is still a small city, relatively speaking!
I also got paid much more than $12 an hour working in Fargo, 5 years ago! I barely make over that now outside of San Fran. Size of city does not mean anything when it comes to paychecks. In fact, people usually get paid a whole lot more to live somewhere smallish, incentive!!! I got paid ALOT more than I likely ever will, living in Minot, ND. It’s not a #1 choice of living for me!!
Hopefully none of the flooding comes to pass this year, its hard to bleveie it has been just about a year since the last one. I’ve updated my blog with a number of flood resources people can hopefully use. =================
Love it! I’m a Bismarck and North Dakota Native of 25 years and I wouldn’t change it for anything.
Its funny just the other day i was at my local taco Johns (yum) and a man comes in places his order and just started chatting with me about how nice people are here, i asked him oh youre not from here he said nope im from NYC, its amazing how nice and friendly and how everyone just talks to you like they are your best friend, its not like that in NYC and he also mentioned how going out in NYC was just not fun anymore with the high costs of drinks and such. He was just passing through as he was checking out schools in California for a basketball scholarship, i love talking to people who arent from here and are just surprised at how ND is not as uncool as some people make it
Did you point him towards NDSU? Go Bison!
Ha i did i said UND or NDSU but he was just traveling thru here he was looking at schools in California not here though…. shoot!
See… it IS possible for people from NYC to enjoy ND.
When I read that New York reporter’s post, I just felt sad for her. She’s the one missing out.
Agreed!
I was born and raised Dakotan. I currently live on the outskirts of San Francisco. Let me say, I miss the nightlife in Fargo! Our best memories come from time “going out” in ND & SD! Here, I have to dress to someone else’s liking, pay $12 for a weak beverage, and the social aspect just isn’t the same! Sure there are friendly people everywhere, but the percentage is soooo much lower. We are surrounded by millions of people and have no idea who our neighbors are. While living in SD and ND, it was “so annoying” to have so many people in your business, but you can count on those people to have your back at the same time! Trustworthiness is a Dakotan’s #1 trait!!! If someone chooses not to live in the Dakota’s, that’s one less person to water down the great state!
I agree, Amanda! She’s clearly the one missing out and that’s fine… more enjoyment for the rest of us!
Nicely done Hailey! For a person is who loves diversity she sure is acting very closed-minded to a different culture. I am not going to lie I had my doubts when I moved site unseen but it ended up being the best decision of my life. I moved and I am living in the “urban jungle” now and I miss ND everyday. Not because of outdoors or the entertainment, because of the people. ND has it all over the the east and west coast on community and support. I was never bored in ND because of the people. There were many times when I lived in NYC when I was bored or frustrated because of the people. Don’t get me wrong there are friendly, motivating, and amazing people everywhere; there just seems to be a larger concentration in ND. WOO HOO Fargo!
Haha I agree Dr. Burns! Yes of course there are good people wherever you go, but sometimes it seems like you sure have to search a lot harder to find them in larger cities. Fargo… and ND in general… is stock full of them.
Bravo! You sound like a hard core North Dakotan! Hope springs eternal for converts!
Hailey, I love this post! I just read the article in question. She can’t really live “outside the concrete jungle?” That doesn’t make ND a bad place to live – that makes her weak. It must be awful to be this close-minded in life. You’d think that with all the “diversity” she is used to on a daily basis she would actually do her homework before passing judgements rather than Googling “North Dakota.” Credibility is key, and she has missed the mark on multiple items. But what do I know?…I’m just a girl from NY/NJ who lives in ND
Or like Sam always says, “We like to keep the Riff-Raff out.”
Haha… I think Sam is on to something!